Episode 29- The Importance of an Editor With Louise Harris

Today, we discuss the journey of Louise Harris! Thank you for joining our journey through the arts. Like we always say "Pursuing your Passions is a Bitch... But it's worth it!"

Please Check out our friend, Louise Harris-
His Website- https://lastresearchandediting.com/

Also Check us out and our future projects at The Rogue Scientist Productions
Website- https://theroguescientistproductions.com/
Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100087537946337
Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/roguescientistproductions/

Check out "The World Beyond" by Charles Dockham on Kindle- https://www.amazon.com/World-Beyond-Charles-Dockham-ebook/dp/B0C9QZYQB3/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2I1LDRGBVAYWN&keywords=Charles+Dockham&qid=1688338231&sprefix=charles+dockh%2Caps%2C801&sr=8-1

Check out "The Beautiful Beast" by Carolyn Clark on Kindle Vella-https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/story/B0BVMNPBKZ

Check out Watsynthebox- Guest host William Thornhill- https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094728966282&mibextid=b06tZ0

Transcript

The Rogue Scientist Productions (00:01.166)
Thank you and welcome to Pursuing Your Passions as a Bitch. I am your host Charles Dockham, the owner of the Road Scientist Productions and the author of The World Beyond, an ongoing story on Kindle Vella. With me I have my guest Luis Harris, the owner of Last Research and Editing. Luis?

Louise Harris (00:19.804)
Thank you for having me.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (00:22.742)
Thank you for being on our show.

Louise Harris (00:26.575)
I am happy to be here.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (00:29.716)
Well, the very first thing I wanted to kind of ask is what got you into the editing field?

Louise Harris (00:41.203)
Well, I always knew I was gonna be a writer. I published my first poem and got paid for it at age 12. And so I went to the University of Maryland for journalism, but I decided that I was a better editor than I am a writer. I mean, I'm a great writer, but I'm an excellent editor and I can see the mistakes in other people's work a lot easier than I can in mine.

So I have been editing ever since I graduated college in both companies, and then I also started my business in 1992.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (01:21.386)
Oh wow, so you've been doing this for quite a while.

Louise Harris (01:24.276)
Yes, I have.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (01:26.99)
Great. And so I was reading through some of your services. So what kind of services do you specialize in when it comes to the editing?

Louise Harris (01:35.379)
I do specialize in writing and editing press releases, writing and editing blogs for people's websites and manuscripts. However, I have the ability to edit other things. I just focus in those three areas.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (01:53.07)
Okay, and so do you, what has been the most fun for you when it has come from the editing process?

Louise Harris (02:03.515)
I really love editing people's manuscripts because every time I do a nonfiction work, I learn a little bit something about an industry that I hadn't known before. So I'm broadening my horizons a little bit just from editing other people's work. I also have been doing press releases for so long that they are so quick and I can crank them out and edit them quickly. And so I like that too.

I think the most fun I have is working with people, especially individual authors, because I love to see the way they grow in their experiences and their books.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (02:49.314)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I mean, everybody's different. Everybody has a different writing style. Everybody has a different version of story that they like to tell. And that's that has to be a really interesting piece in in seeing basically the raw form before it kind of gets fully published of every story before it gets on to market.

Louise Harris (03:14.127)
Yes, and in fact, the most recent book that I did was called The Back Bible. And the person handed it to me, it was so disorganized and I had nowhere. I tell him that I am Dr. Frankenstein and creating his monster based on what the original was and now how it's completed. So that was my Frankenstein book.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (03:44.546)
Hehehe

The Rogue Scientist Productions (03:48.438)
So here's one thing that I've always been kind of interested in when it comes to the editing process because I know every author is different. Some people will immediately finish the manuscript and then hand it off to the editor to kind of just begin the process. But where would you say the perfect place would be for a writer who's getting started to kind of get into the editing world, I guess, after they've... Yeah.

Louise Harris (04:15.495)
Well, as you said, authors are different types. And I've actually have three different kinds of clients. I will have a client who gives me the entire manuscript and I just have to polish it and then format it for them. And then I have clients who have an idea, they've started, but they don't really know how to make it flow. And so then I'm giving them editing plus coaching. And it-

And in that case, starting as early as possible with an editor is the best way to do that. And then I have clients who just don't have time or they don't know how to write, or they have a disability and they can't write. So then I do the whole thing and I'm ghostwriting. So the clients run the gamut. And I would say that you should always have a professional editor. Where you bring that editor into the writing process is really up to the client.

the author, but as early as possible for the most success.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (05:17.806)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, you don't necessarily want to just plop 320 pages down and go, I finished it here. You know. Yeah.

Louise Harris (05:28.234)
Exactly.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (05:33.403)
So, okay, so going through your process, I would say that a great time would be to initially just kind of work through the process as you're kind of going along. So how does that really work? So, how does that really work?

Louise Harris (05:46.663)
Well, the reason I say bring in an editor as early as possible is because, and we said this before you started the show, that a lot of authors don't know how to market their books. Well, the first problem is when you're editing the book, you need to know how you're going to sell the book because it makes a difference if, if you are just planning to write a book to tell your story, to pass down to your kids.

You don't have to edit it in a way that's going to be marketed well. If you're just giving it away as a marketing tool, again, it doesn't have to have all the bells and whistles. But if you're editing it because you want to sell it, then the editor has to know that upfront and the editor has to make sure that it meets all the standards that it should meet to get the most bang for your buck.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (06:44.574)
No, that's really good insight. So in order to make sure that you're getting the best, I'm guessing most authors who are listening to this podcast are looking to potentially sell their stories and kind of making sure that they are getting the most bang for their buck, what would you suggest is a great pathway for them to follow?

Louise Harris (06:46.12)
And

I would tell them that they need to, after they have done a few drafts, I don't have to come in on the first draft, but after they've done a few drafts, they should hire a professional editor, whether it's me or somebody else. And then the editor will see the problems. I've often had to tell my authors that, hey, you're missing this whole segment, or I had this question and you didn't answer it.

So if they come in, if an author, I mean, an editor is working with you as you're revising, then the editor, I mean, the writer can add those things that the editor sees that are missing. And if a reader finds something missing, all the reader will do is just put the book down and not take it up again. And so then you've lost the possible sale. So that's what an editor can do. So I would say,

I like to be collaborative as much as possible. So it's always a give and take. Sometimes I don't always agree with the author in keeping something, but I'll do it because I know it's their book. So that give and take is so important. And so the pathway is a lot of communication, a lot of accepting the professional editor as someone who's a professional and is giving good advice because they've known what the...

to do and to listen and come up with your own ideas and work some nuances. And then it has to be stated, authors often want to skimp on the cover and they never should do that. They should always have a professional cover designer if they want to sell it and get money. So

The Rogue Scientist Productions (09:07.762)
Yeah, I mean when they say that don't buy a book by its cover and that's more than 50% of the sales as someone saw a neat cover and bought it.

Louise Harris (09:17.826)
Right. That saying does not match the reality at all. So, and people do buy by the cover. And they especially buy by what is the description on the back of the cover or the description in Amazon. So, I often help my authors do that too. I write the description in a way that's going to be saleable too. So.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (09:23.391)
Yeah

No, that's an amazing way to kind of get a lot of insight. I've been really interested in talking to you in particular because of this area. I know I work on the, I guess this would be the front end piece, which I'm writing a novel, going through the process, going through all of those different things. And I know that a lot of my listeners are probably going through something similar, going through the process of writing their novels.

And then they, it's just how to get from point A to point B. I know a lot of people focus on the self publishing piece, putting it on Amazon, making sure you're able to start that piece, but kind of you see a lot of reviews on Amazon then in terms of, well, there was a lot of missing words, a lot of misspelled words, a lot of different things. So it's just like they're running it through certain programs to just try and get immediate.

feedback and then just immediately putting it out. And that's where I would see when it kind of comes down to that portion a huge, huge need to up the level of certain processes for a lot of self-published authors out there. And so that's why I wanted to really...

I wanted to get your insight when it comes to the editing process. Do you see a lot of self publishers or do you work with traditional publishers?

Louise Harris (11:10.327)
I mostly work with authors who want to self-publish, but I'm not a fan of Grammarly, and I'm not a fan of Spellcheck or Grammarcheck. And one of the, I mean, they are great for some things, but a lot of times the computer has been programmed incorrectly, so the computer will say something is correct when it is incorrect.

And also if you rely only on the computer, you won't get that nuance of does it sound right? Because one of the biggest problems that I have seen in all of my authors is that their books don't flow and a book is supposed to flow like a river from chapter one to chapter two all the way to the end. It's supposed to flow. And...

The Grammarly and other computer software programs aren't, isn't looking for those kind of things, whereas a person like myself will look for those kind of things. So, and, and that's where you need an editor because you do want to improve the writing. And I'm not saying don't use them, but don't rely solely on them.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (12:32.746)
No, and that's a really good point is that, like you said, grammaly, it looks for the most right in terms of grammar. It looks for the most right in terms of sentence structure. But when it comes to characters, your character's dialogue isn't supposed to be the most perfectly designed dialogue. It's supposed to be someone's actual vernacular, someone's actual trying to speak. And you're starting to get that character across.

If you're trying to do everything the most perfect and most everything, you're going to lose a lot of that character out of that. So having someone like you come in and take the novel, then you have a chance to really kind of get that character out and flush that character out and really kind of focus on that flow.

Louise Harris (13:21.155)
Exactly. And that is the problem with AI and other machine-driven type of things that can't really get that emotion. And I have a character that doesn't speak well in one of my books. And so usually when I'm editing, I will edit dialogue somewhat, but I won't really take the flavor out of the dialogue because I get the idea of what they're trying to do.

So I kind of stay away from dialogue as much as I can. I do know that in some cases I have to fix things, but in other cases, that's what they're trying to do on purpose. So it's supposed to not make sense or it's supposed to be broken English or something like that. So I do understand that, but again, a computer isn't gonna necessarily understand that. So...

The Rogue Scientist Productions (14:19.846)
No, and now we're getting into the insight of AI art and all those different pieces. So it's it's it's removing a lot of the imperfections that make something perfect. So one a couple of questions that I kind of had in terms of the editing process. I know that there's different levels. So like you said, getting the editor involved as soon as possible is the best way to make sure that your book is

Louise Harris (14:24.48)
Eheh

The Rogue Scientist Productions (14:49.458)
ready for sale and ready for being out in the world for everybody. But so I know that there's the beta level reading to make sure that everything kind of fits all that. Then you have the line editing, the story editing, the grammar editing. So it's just kind of a lot of different pieces. So where do you kind of fit into that process?

Louise Harris (15:18.091)
I'm not really a developmental editor. I'm more of a comprehensive editor. I can do the grammar and the proofreading and the line editing, but I can also, as I mentioned earlier, I can see when something's missing and then something that somebody didn't address and I can bring that up, but I'm not, so I say I'm more of a comprehensive, so I can.

see the things that are missing and I can fix that and I can fix the grammar and the line editing and the proofreading, which are all different steps. I tend to, in my process, I will edit it more than once and I print it out too. That's another thing that I'm different from most editors because I won't do it on the screen. I will read it in hard copy form and you catch more things by reading in hard copy form.

And then I put in the changes from that. So, but a developmental editor is one of those editors that you have a concept, but you don't really have plot lines yet. And I'm not really that kind of editor. You kind of have to know your plot before you start with me. So.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (16:41.514)
No, and that's a good point to kind of just kind of keep an eye out for because I would assume that as you're kind of going through, you're probably getting a lot of people who still have a little bit way through their menu strips to go before they kind of reach the point where they kind of need you in the process or would want you in the process because they need to fix some things on their end.

Louise Harris (17:03.795)
Right. And there are editors who do that. It's just I'm not one of them. So, but I also don't think an author really needs to go through 100 editing either. I think they can have one or two editors to do everything that they need to do. So, that saves them some money, some, but.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (17:10.014)
Yeah!

Louise Harris (17:28.915)
The more well-known authors tend to do several different editors, but the...

The Rogue Scientist Productions (17:35.386)
Yeah, you kind of want to get different insights sometimes. Some people will see some things that others don't. So no, that's a really kind of good point, especially when somebody's getting like further down the process and they start kind of making this a normal habit. It becomes less of a searching for something, but here's the people I go to.

Louise Harris (17:40.265)
Right.

Yes.

Louise Harris (17:58.235)
Right, exactly. You have people that you rely on every single time. And I do that too. I have a couple of cover designers that I go to every single time. And they're always good. So that's my... Because I'm not an artist. And I know that on your...

The Rogue Scientist Productions (18:18.926)
Mm-hmm.

Louise Harris (18:20.955)
description of your podcast, you did mention artists. So I just want to make sure people know that I'm not an artist.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (18:30.611)
No, I still feel like all of this fits into the arts and I still feel like this all fits into the entertainment industry as a whole. There's different pieces and there's different puzzle pieces that all kind of fit together. And so there's the... Yeah. And like with...

Louise Harris (18:49.39)
And that's true.

Yeah, everybody has a talent and it's all an art form and they all work together to create whatever you want to be created. The hosting a podcast is an art form so it all works together.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (19:08.838)
Exactly i mean and you can look at the restaurant and stuff like that and you look at front of house back of house the front of house people are gonna be the actors the back of house people are gonna be the people behind the camera so it's it's it's. It all fits together and so that's why i feel like editing is an art form because it comes through and it helps accentuate and build a pine something to make it better.

And that's a huge piece about editing that I want to get across to my listeners as well, is that don't shy away from looking for an editor because it's an important piece to build your project. And as much as it's your baby, as much as it's your thing that you've just spent a year in your life writing or two years or five years writing, it's a great thing to have someone look at it and just go, here's what needs to be done to make this.

the best thing it can be. So.

Louise Harris (20:10.943)
And there are authors who have this weird conception of editors. They think that an editor is just going to destroy everything that I've written, and it's not going to be my voice anymore. And that isn't true, but I have met a few people that thought that. I had a client who wrote everything in present tense, and books are supposed to be written in past tense. So I started.

editing it to put it in past tense. Well, he got mad at me because I was putting in past tense and it was taking away his voice. So I'm like, okay. And then I had another one who I proceeded to tell her that it didn't make sense the way she had written it and I was reordering it, but she didn't want me to reorder it because it was taking away her voice. So I'm like, all right. So, you know, the only thing I can do is just

The Rogue Scientist Productions (21:02.743)
Hehehehehe

Louise Harris (21:07.235)
let them go because I'm obviously not the right fit for them. So that's usually what I do. But there are authors who just think that editors are trying to change them. And that isn't what we're out there to do. We're trying to make them better, like you said.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (21:28.598)
Now, and it's a very important piece of the process. And like you said, book covers are an important piece of the process as well when it comes like, when it comes to purchases, people don't buy the adage that people don't buy books by their cover is a lie. It is a lie from the pit of hell. And people do buy books by their covers all the time. I'm guilty of that.

I've bought at least half the books on my shelf because they're trippers.

Louise Harris (21:54.387)
Yes.

And I actually had someone tell me that your cover has to look good in a thumbnail because that's how most people are looking at it on Amazon is in a thumbnail on their phone. So, so if your cover doesn't look good in thumbnail, then it's still not going to work. So.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (22:17.714)
Yeah, that's a huge process nowadays is that you have all the digital formats, not just bookstores. You have it, Kindle, you have Google, you have all the different formats go through and it's a huge process.

Louise Harris (22:22.196)
Yes.

Right, right.

Louise Harris (22:35.503)
and

The Rogue Scientist Productions (22:35.586)
So one thing I wanted to just kind of ask, just because we've been kind of talking about, you've been doing this for more than 20 years, 30 years now, right?

Louise Harris (22:50.055)
Yeah, in more than 30 years, yes.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (22:53.434)
So how many, if you were to estimate how many books you've helped get to get to market, how many books have you, what do you say that would be?

Louise Harris (23:05.343)
Well, I've been editing for more than 30 years, but I didn't really start doing books until about 2006, maybe 2005. Before that, I was doing other kinds of writing and editing. So I would say maybe 12 to 15 books I've brought to market since I started. I don't do many a year. I'll do maybe four or five a year.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (23:26.131)
Okay.

Louise Harris (23:35.956)
because it's a long process. So that's why. And then some people,

The Rogue Scientist Productions (23:42.976)
Yeah, no I mean...

Oh no, go ahead, there's a, there's a...

Louise Harris (23:48.955)
Yeah. So, and some of the things that I've edited, they're just marketing tools, or they're just, so they're not actually being sold, or they're, the person is reworking them because they're not ready to release it yet. So there's, yeah. So I'd say about 10 to 15. I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (24:14.482)
No, I mean, people sometimes spend five years writing their novels. So it's 10, 15 in the course of a time frame. That's that's big, especially because you've gone through the process. They had the initial rights. They figured everything out. You helped them through it. And then finally, after their cover was decided, now they're on shelves or online. And that's that's a huge piece right there. And so what? Yeah.

Louise Harris (24:38.195)
Right.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (24:40.518)
what would you kind of suggest for anybody looking to potentially get into this field in terms of getting things started, kind of stepping into the writing process. I know everybody wants to be a writer but what is a huge thing that you would like to let people know?

Louise Harris (25:02.611)
Well, I think, first of all, not everybody, I always say everyone can be a writer, but not everyone should be a writer. So, if you have a talent for it, you will notice that it'll come naturally. But if you don't, don't force it. As I always say that I'm a better editor than I am a writer.

It's because I can see things in other people's work that I don't always see in my own work. But how to get started, I think doing somebody's that you know is probably the easiest way to get started. The way I got into editing books was through my great uncle. My great uncle, he was 90 years old and he wanted to pass down his story to the family because he wanted everybody.

to have these stories when he died, after he died. So he knew I was an editor and he hired me and he actually paid me to edit his story. So that is how I did my very first book. And I had some problems with it because when I did my first one, I didn't realize that I was supposed to hire someone to do the cover. So I kind of designed it myself and.

It's okay because it's just being passed down to the family, but it would never be very good on a shelf or anything. Um, but I learned from that. So I learned that maybe hiring somebody else to do it is a better idea. And so if you're getting into, if you want to start editing books or you want to start writing books, start with what you know and who you know, and find out how you can do their books.

I have another person that I met last year. She's starting editing and she, her brother is an author and she's been editing her brother's books. So that's how she's getting started. So I think that's the easiest way.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (27:12.406)
And I think that's a great message to kind of end our show on. So our time is running out for the episode. I would like to thank you for being on our show. Are there any projects coming up? Are there any events that you're doing? Any social media websites you'd like my listeners to follow you on?

Louise Harris (27:34.347)
Okay, well I am on Facebook and LinkedIn. I have a Google profile. You can check out my Amazon author page. It's amazon.com slash author slash Louise Harris. I also have three books that are my novels. That's 1776 series and they're on the author page. I have a nonfiction book about addiction. I have two books that I ghost wrote about.

the cookbooks that I ghost wrote. And then I'm working on 1776 Soldier. It's my fourth book in the 1776 series. It's gonna be out this year. I'm doing the editing now. So my goal is to get it out for July 4th, but it may be Christmas.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (28:25.23)
Perfect and thank you as for me You'll be able to find us on our website the road scientist productions calm where we have our merchandise and links to my story on Kindle Vell the world beyond you also have all of our road scientists social media platforms Facebook Tumblr Twitter The best way to support us is to like our podcast on your favorite podcast platform of choice and let us know how much You've enjoyed our show we want to thank you Louise for being on our guest today and thank all of our listeners for joining us as well

This has been our podcast to all of those out there looking to get started in a new career in the arts such as acting, writing, music, comedy, and more. Always remember, pursuing your passions is a bitch, but it's worth it.

Louise Harris (29:07.967)
Thank you. I enjoy being here.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (29:10.542)
Thank you.