Episode 26- Around Which All Things Bend with Nancy Perpall

Today, we discuss the journey of Nancy Perpall! Thank you for joining our journey through the arts. Like we always say "Pursuing your Passions is a Bitch... But it's worth it!"

Please Check out our friend, Nancy Perpall-
His Website- https://nancyperpall.com/

Also Check us out and our future projects at The Rogue Scientist Productions
Website- https://theroguescientistproductions.com/
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Check out "The World Beyond" by Charles Dockham on Kindle Vella- https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/story/B0BMZPTP6G

Check out "The Beautiful Beast" by Carolyn Clark on Kindle Vella-https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/story/B0BVMNPBKZ

Check out Watsynthebox- Guest host William Thornhill- https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094728966282&mibextid=b06tZ0

Transcript

The Rogue Scientist Productions (00:01.197)
Thank you and welcome to Pursuing Your Passions as a Bitch. I am your host, Charles Dockham, the owner of the Rhodes Scientist Productions and the author of The World Beyond, an ongoing story in Kindle Vella. With me I have my guest, Nancy Perpahl, the author of Around Which All Things Bend. Nancy?

Nancy Perpall (00:19.554)
Hello, thank you for having me.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (00:22.489)
Thank you for being on our show. The first question I wanted to ask and always get started with authors is what got you into writing?

Nancy Perpall (00:33.83)
I've been writing since I was little. At five years old, Highlights magazine had a contest. And I'm retired now, I'm 75 years old, but 70 years ago there was a contest. And if you wrote a story, you won a pony. And I wrote this story and my big brother helped me with some of the...

Nancy Perpall (01:02.514)
punctuation and spelling and I gave it to my mother and then I knew when they were going to announce the winner so I subsequently went out and sat on the on the front stair waiting for them to pull up with my pony and I went out there every day after kindergarten and sat and sat and sat and waited and I'm one of seven children and my mother is first-generation German

Nancy Perpall (01:30.802)
and you had to be at the dinner table at five o'clock. That was just it. You had to be there. She never scolded me. She never came out. She never told me I had to get in there. And it never dawned on me that something must be up. I'm gonna net it all out. It turns out my mother never sent it in because she was afraid I would win the pony.

Nancy Perpall (01:57.994)
She said, she confessed it when I was like 50 years old. And she said, I know it always upset you that you didn't win that pony, but Nancy, it was so good. There's no way I could handle a pony with seven kids. So anyway, but I've always, you know, I've always written. I was a critical care nurse before I became an attorney.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (02:13.273)
Hehehe

Nancy Perpall (02:22.562)
And I wrote a textbook with some people from University of Pennsylvania, Advanced Concepts in Clinical Nursing. And it was adopted as a mandatory read in many nursing schools and many hospitals adopted the patient protocols that we had recommended for better patient outcomes. A lot of hospitals, except the one where I was working in the emergency room, because at that time in 1974,

Nancy Perpall (02:48.554)
Only doctors recommended changes to patient protocols, not nurses. So that's things have changed. But anyway, I became a lawyer because I asked somebody, how do I get people to listen to me in the administration? And they said, go to law school, you'll have power. So I went to law school.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (03:11.913)
No, that's really important. It's like you said, you chose to follow a path that kind of gives you a little bit more authority, especially when it comes to badly written laws or badly written regulations.

Nancy Perpall (03:22.318)
Thank you.

Nancy Perpall (03:28.918)
Absolutely. Yes. And I, what subsequently happened is I joined a law firm that did defense malpractice, thinking that that would be a great way to really see where the holes are in the system. Because in those days, doctors were being sued for negligence all of the time. That has significantly decreased because of certain things that have been put in place. You have to have an expert before you sue the doctor, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But

Nancy Perpall (03:58.078)
In any event, in those days, it was just, you know, watershed. I mean, it was just a fire hose of lawsuits against physicians. So I joined this law firm and my first day on the job, there were 75 divorce files. I went to the managing partner and I said, I really don't wanna do divorce. I was hired to do defense malpractice. And he leaned across his big mahogany desk, put his finger an inch from my nose and said,

Nancy Perpall (04:28.146)
you have a bad attitude. You'll do whatever we tell you to do. And by the way, divorce is woman's work. So you see, I was, you know, I started my law career, you know, at a time when women couldn't get a credit card, they had to have a male co-sign alone. They couldn't get an apartment without a male's signature. So, I mean, it was, you know, the good old days.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (04:39.321)
Wow.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (04:56.841)
The good old days, wow.

Nancy Perpall (04:59.198)
But I made lemonade of lemonade. I became a very well-regarded divorce attorney. The Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, where I was practicing, appointed me chair of the Domestic Relations Rules Committee for the Supreme Court. And I served on that for six years, which is the longest term you can serve on it. I wrote many articles, gave many seminars.

Nancy Perpall (05:23.694)
And again, you know, I kept writing and writing and writing. So I've always written. I love to write.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (05:32.121)
And so all of this experience has led to you writing the novel around which all things bend.

Nancy Perpall (05:33.234)
And so all this experience has led to you writing the

Nancy Perpall (05:38.878)
Yes, it has because I used to spend a lot of money buying the pamphlets from the American Bar Association about divorce, about how to tell your kids about divorce, about what to do after you get divorced, you know, your estate plan, your budgeting, you know, how to start dating again, you know, on and on and on. And they were expensive. No one ever read them. So I figured that people, and I would ask why, you know,

Nancy Perpall (06:08.23)
they'd ask me these questions they have to pay to ask me. You know lawyers if you call them on the phone that's billable hours. So I would say I gave you the pamphlet you know it's okay I'll answer your question but why are you calling me? Oh I don't want to read about it like that it's just too clinical. So I decided I was going to write a novel about relationships and about not settling and compromising.

Nancy Perpall (06:35.334)
And when you saw the red flag or you see the red flag in a relationship, not to hesitate to break it off before you go through with the wedding, you knock out a couple of kids, and then you've got major heartbreak, major trauma to children, and that's what the book is about. It's a book, a young man comes back from Afghanistan. He's the heir to a very large...

Nancy Perpall (07:03.99)
ranch in Montana. He comes back, he does what every other male in his family has done, and he's the only heir, by the way, his father is deceased, and he quickly gets engaged, but he realizes this is not the right person for me. And he breaks the engagement, and the book is about all the consequences that flow from that. And he ends up in Charleston, South Carolina to help an army buddy, and there he meets somebody, and it's about

Nancy Perpall (07:33.698)
what they do, because she's a PhD psychology student, what they do when they start to realize that there's a real attraction between them, what are the steps that they go through? And I do it through dialogue, and there are psychologists out there who recommend, there are 36 questions you should ask each other to make sure you're compatible. And there's a wealth of information.

Nancy Perpall (08:02.75)
about premarital counseling, the kinds of subjects you should discuss, like sex, finances, family values, when you have children, are you going to be, do you think this is a gender situation, gender defined about who's going to take care of the kids, and I mean there's just a whole, there's just an enormous silo.

Nancy Perpall (08:31.786)
of questions that you should ask each other before you decide you're going to partner up for the rest of your life. And that's what the book is about. It's far more interesting than a premarital, you know, clinical counseling session or some of these courses that I've seen on the internet, because it's interesting, it has plot twists, it has sex, intrigue. It's a fun book.

Nancy Perpall (09:02.174)
And I'm actually very gratified. And frankly, I have to admit surprised. It's getting all five-star reviews on Amazon. And these are not my friends and family. Cause most of my friends and family, although they've bought the book, they haven't read it because they read it while I was writing it.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (09:20.805)
Exactly. But it's actually really interesting that you wrote, like you said, red flags, everything in certain situations, but you did it in a fictional format. So that way you are getting the story across so people can learn these red flags, but enjoy the story and not having it like, okay, so here's red flag one by diagnostics, statistician, this person. Yeah.

Nancy Perpall (09:44.787)
Exactly.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (09:47.237)
It's you're doing it in a fun and interesting way to learn from.

Nancy Perpall (09:53.234)
Exactly. And that's why the traditional publishers that I sent it to weren't interested because they said, books like this don't exist. This is a cross genre book. So, well, you know, the agent said, you know, I'd be happy to represent you, but you've got to take all of this out. And I know I'm not taking it out. That's the point of the book. So anyway, I mean, you know,

Nancy Perpall (10:20.502)
When you try to think out of the box, and I know from your books, I mean, if you try to be super creative, it sort of goes against their prototype of what a romance novel should be, or what a specific genre should be. And unless you are somebody like Colleen Hoover or J.K. Rowling, you're not gonna be able to.

Nancy Perpall (10:48.702)
you know, basically think out of the box. They want you to do the cookie cutter, tried and true method that they know will sell a novel in a particular genre.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (11:02.735)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy Perpall (11:03.97)
So that was my experience.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (11:07.445)
Also a reason why I might be doing self-publishing instead of traditional publishing for some of my work.

Nancy Perpall (11:14.378)
Well, yeah, I did this. This was self-published. I did a hybrid type of a publishing. I didn't have the best experience, so I can't really recommend them. But, you know, there are some good hybrid publishers out there. For my next book, which is non-fiction, I'm going to probably, you know, given my age and everything else, I'm not gonna try to do traditional.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (11:26.839)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy Perpall (11:41.662)
As I'm sure you know, it takes two to three years from the time the agent actually sells the book for the book to come out.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (11:51.298)
Well, yeah.

Nancy Perpall (11:51.426)
So I'm not interested in, you know, it would be posthumously, I mean, I'm getting on in age. I know I wait two to three years, so anyway.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (12:02.385)
Yeah, no. And can you tell us a little bit about your work that's coming out soon?

Nancy Perpall (12:12.582)
The work that's coming up, again, and this is, it's written far more, I would say clinically, than the novel, but there's a lot of humor in it. There are actually cartoons in it, illustrations, and it's dealt with somewhat lightheartedly.

Nancy Perpall (12:42.422)
But there's some real serious messages. The name of the book is The Malnourished Marriage, Five Essential Emotional Nutrients for a Healthy Relationship. And the introduction begins with the premise that it's always better in a marriage to accept the apology you're never gonna get and pretend you got it. And so, you know, I explain, you know, the theory behind that.

Nancy Perpall (13:11.69)
I explain how you can change your mindset and how with practice, even if it's just one person who wants to try to save a struggling relationship, you really can change the dynamics of a relationship and push it forward. It really can be done because as we all know now, most people realize that we have mirror neurons in our brains.

Nancy Perpall (13:41.426)
And if one person is truly trying to be better at expressing themselves to their spouse or their partner, believe it or not, that's mirrored. That's felt and it's mirrored. It's not done right away. It's not, you know, the silver bullet. It's not going to be quick and easy. But with practice and with persistence.

Nancy Perpall (14:10.75)
it works. And so I go through, I use food as a metaphor, because if you research it, and you just even Google food as a metaphor for love, food has for centuries been a metaphor for love. And Shakespeare, I mean, almost all of his plays talk about food and love. I think Twelfth Night is the most favorite, famous one. But, you know, I mean,

Nancy Perpall (14:39.998)
All of his plays talk about food and love and so do many novels and many other plays. So I chose the metaphor of food and then I compare communication to water, water crashes or flows, words crash or flow, and then I go down the list of five essential emotional nutrients. Sex is like the protein building block of the body and sex is the building block of a relationship.

Nancy Perpall (15:09.298)
And then I talk about humor. Humor is like carbohydrate. You really need humor in a marriage. If you don't have humor in a marriage, it really starts to get a bit sticky. You've got to break those moments where there's so much tension and you feel as if, you know, there's gonna be an explosion. And then I talk about compassion.

Nancy Perpall (15:38.306)
well, actually it's compromise rather, as like a healthy lipid, you know, you need healthy fats, healthy fats protect the membranes and the body and the organs and, you know, compromise protects the relationship. And then trust compared to a multivitamin. And, you know, it's sort of, it may not sound right now like it makes sense, but the people who have done...

Nancy Perpall (16:04.962)
who have been my beta readers really have gotten a lot out of it. And I also have a website and I did a series, I did the series of blogs addressing these things on my website. And I got such a reaction that that's why I decided to turn it into a book.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (16:24.881)
So how much research went into designing this book?

Nancy Perpall (16:26.042)
So, yeah.

Nancy Perpall (16:29.702)
Oh, I did a tremendous amount of research for this book. The novel was, you know, really from my experiences, not only as a divorce lawyer, I've represented literally thousands of people in their divorce over the course of over 30 years. And I myself have been married three times and.

Nancy Perpall (16:57.31)
You know, the premise of that book is that you really, a big part of why the marriage does not work is that going into it, you knew that you probably shouldn't have done it, but you did it anyway. I can tell you I used to keep track of this because I know it happened in my own situations.

Nancy Perpall (17:22.682)
I used to ask people, did you see the red flags before you get married? 90% and I actually tracked it. 90% of the people who I represented in their divorce said, yes, they saw the red flags before they got married, but did it anyway. The invitations were out, it had gone too far, you know, the venue was paid for, what was my mother going to say, what are my friends going to say, you know, I couldn't back out at the last minute.

Nancy Perpall (17:50.594)
But this book, Around Which All Things Bend, shows you what can happen if you have the courage to back out at the last minute, and the consequences, all the positive consequences that can flow from that. And, you know, the last 10 years of my practice, I did more prenuptial agreements than I ever did the first 20 years of my practice. And...

Nancy Perpall (18:17.582)
when somebody wouldn't, and usually it was the woman, wouldn't sign the prenuptial agreement and the fiancee would be husband broke the agreement, he often felt relieved. I mean, in his heart of hearts, he felt relieved. So, I mean, he knew that going into this, he had questions, which is why he wanted the prenuptial agreement. And then after

Nancy Perpall (18:44.222)
It was like a release. It was like, I was right. I was right. She's after my money kind of thing. So, I mean, we're all looking for love. I mean, we're human. We're meant to be in herds. We're meant to connect with other humans. Longing for love is something that starts as soon as we come out of the womb. I mean, that's what we're looking for. Warmth, love, nurturing, safety.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (19:15.921)
Yeah, and it's a huge piece of our lives.

Nancy Perpall (19:17.941)
Yeah.

Nancy Perpall (19:22.314)
Excuse me, enormous piece of our lives. And I mean, before COVID, the divorce rate in the United States was declining. It actually was hovering, if you can believe it, close to 40, 41%. And now it's way up over 50. COVID has just brought the floodgates of divorce filings.

Nancy Perpall (19:48.858)
During COVID, of course, the courts were closed. So there were no divorce filings. You couldn't really, you could file a divorce but it wasn't going anywhere. But the divorce rate is really increased as a result of COVID. And it is about 50% or actually, not all the statistics are in because it takes so long to collect them. But...

Nancy Perpall (20:17.526)
What I've read is it's close to 50%. For second marriages, it's 60%. For third marriages, it's 70%.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (20:26.265)
for divorce?

Nancy Perpall (20:28.297)
Yep.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (20:30.393)
Wow. I think this is.

Nancy Perpall (20:33.066)
And people over 50 are getting divorced twice as often as people under 50.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (20:39.86)
Uh huh.

Nancy Perpall (20:41.822)
Yep. They're thinking about their mortality. People who are 50 probably got married in their early 20s. They spent 20 years with someone that they realized they don't really love anymore. And they're not going to spend the next 20 years or possibly if they're lucky 30 years with this person and just tolerate it and become used to the situation that they're in. So yes, they are. And again, you know.

Nancy Perpall (21:11.586)
I actually, I do metadata research, but you can Google all of this and it's all over. I mean, you know, this is not any big secret or earth-shaking revelation. I'm, you know, it's actually very well known among the divorce attorneys and people who are divorced or becoming divorced. Um, and the curious thing is that, you know, think about it. If you got on a plane and the pilot came on and said,

Nancy Perpall (21:41.451)
I have an announcement to make. We only have a 50% chance of getting to our destination. What would you do?

The Rogue Scientist Productions (21:47.897)
kid off that plane.

Nancy Perpall (21:50.206)
Yeah, but people get married in this country. I'm not going to ask you to take a wild guess because she won't guess it. Six every 16 seconds, somebody gets married in this country. You can Google that too. Yeah. Every 16 seconds, every 42 seconds, somebody gets divorced.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (22:02.888)
Wow.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (22:11.373)
Huh. And the one thing I...

Nancy Perpall (22:14.39)
Yeah, there are 223 divorces during the five hours of a normal wedding reception. The average wedding reception is five hours. So, you know, there are over 200 divorces during that period of time.

Nancy Perpall (22:33.366)
I mean, you know, but people have hope. You know, again, we're human. I mean, I saw that as a critical care nurse in the emergency room in intensive care. We have hope. That's why we get up in the morning. And that's why, you know, that's what motivates us, our hope that things are gonna get better, our hope that we will be better, our hope, our belief, which our hope becomes a belief.

Nancy Perpall (23:02.434)
that we're different than other people. We are our soulmates. And by the way, there is no such thing as a soulmate. It drives me crazy. You know, and we hope we're gonna be different. We hope that this is the person that we can go the full destination with, that we're going to be, we're going to live our life together and we're gonna get along and we're gonna raise a family and we're gonna be happy.

Nancy Perpall (23:33.474)
But the reality about marriage is there will be fights. For two people who aren't raised many times in the same culture, may have religion, same economic circumstances, same education, to intertwine their lives and think that they're going to agree on everything that's entailed in a marriage.

Nancy Perpall (24:02.342)
Where are you gonna live? How are you gonna spend your finances? Do you want kids? If we have kids, how are we gonna raise the kids? Are we gonna save for the kids for college? Are we gonna make them work? There's so many things. And then there are the mundane things that drive people crazy. The towels on the floor, the toothpaste, the way somebody cuts their meat. I mean, I don't know if you've ever seen the War of the Roses.

Nancy Perpall (24:31.938)
That's a movie? It's an alt movie.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (24:33.833)
Uh, yeah I haven't seen that one.

Nancy Perpall (24:38.498)
Okay, well, it's worth listening. It's worth watching if you're thinking about getting married. These people are madly in love and they get married. What's his name? Douglas and I can't think of her name. Anyway, they're very, very good together and they just grow apart. And she's a very good cook and

The Rogue Scientist Productions (25:01.581)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy Perpall (25:06.898)
she's looking at him and she starts talking about how she hates the way he cuts his meat and he chews and is driving her crazy and then everything breaks loose and they start arguing and you know you have to see the movie. But you know it's hard when you're going to be living with the same person, sleeping in the same room, sharing the same closet, sharing the same bathroom.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (25:20.79)
Yeah.

Nancy Perpall (25:35.194)
and trying to make a way in the world, and most married people now, both parties work. There's all that pressure, you know, of making the goals that you've set for yourself professionally. And as you get knocked down, and you come home at the end of the day, and your spouse or your partner has had an equally sucky day,

Nancy Perpall (26:03.23)
and you're sitting looking at your phone and not you when you come in and you don't have eye contact, you feel rejected or abandoned or dismissed. And that's one of the worst things you can do to a partner or a spouse, make them feel dismissed.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (26:16.685)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy Perpall (26:26.878)
And so it starts. You know, the resentment starts, the bitterness starts, and if it's not addressed, it just takes roots in the very substance of the marriage. And that's when the cracks start. And if the cracks, you know, are not addressed, they become chasms and it gets bigger and bigger until it becomes intolerable and something has to give.

Nancy Perpall (26:54.814)
And usually people decide, look, you know, we're either gonna work on this or I'm outta here.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (27:02.53)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy Perpall (27:03.902)
So, you know, as I've explained, you know, I've spent over 30 years taking apart marriages. I'd like to spend my retirement trying to keep them together. I think a lot of people bail from their marriages prematurely. They have unrealistic, unmet expectations. And the problem is that the person who's not meeting their expectations doesn't even know what they are.

Nancy Perpall (27:32.79)
because the communication becomes so poor. Yeah, exactly, you got it.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (27:32.973)
Yeah, there's no communication.

Nancy Perpall (27:39.967)
Yep, absolutely, you got it. That's the big issue.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (27:42.077)
And I think that you were right when it came to COVID is that now you have these unspoken expectations and now you're stuck in a room together when it came to those two years of just yeah, now you have just like this churning pot of what do we do next?

Nancy Perpall (28:02.614)
Absolutely. The interesting thing, because I'm still very friendly with a number of judges and who are still active and on the bench. I asked one of them, I said, once the courts opened up, I said, what are you seeing? Because they were telling me how the divorce rate is like. All they're doing is divorce work now. Whereas before COVID, they did it, but not like it is now.

Nancy Perpall (28:31.678)
They said, you know, there are so many issues that arose during COVID, but one of the biggest one was arguments over the vaccine.

Nancy Perpall (28:41.714)
whether we should, whether they should get vaccinated or not, whether the kids should get vaccinated or not, whether we should send the kids to school, whether we should home school them, whether she would make them wear masks. I mean, all of these issues around COVID are just, you know, mind-boggling. That's things that you never would have thought of. The other big thing in COVID is that so many people, there's a new...

Nancy Perpall (29:10.166)
type of infidelity. It's not new, but I mean, people are just starting to learn about it. So I'll give you the primer on it. It's called financial infidelity. And during COVID, many people found because they were both there 24 seven. And although I think the mail was for a period suspended, it started quickly. And, you know, the mail would come in, it would be hard to hide, right?

Nancy Perpall (29:39.186)
And, you know, couples were finding out that their spouse or partner had either taken money out on a whole life insurance or cashed some asset in without their consent. And that ended up being a huge issue, huge issue. Yeah, there was one couple who reported that the husband had actually falsified her name.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (29:57.27)
Oh wow.

Nancy Perpall (30:07.09)
on a application for a home equity loan to cover his gambling debts.

Nancy Perpall (30:15.422)
So that's called financial infidelity.

Nancy Perpall (30:21.102)
And with the way the economy is, you may find it hard to believe, but these two people who swore that they were going to trust each other, love each other, give each other their heart because they knew that the other person would protect it, they're going behind their back and squandering their money.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (30:43.513)
Ah.

Nancy Perpall (30:44.49)
And for many people, you know, what one relationship you always have when you go into a marriage is your relationship with money. That is one of the biggest things that a couple should discuss before they get married. And I mean really ferret it out because we all come to a relationship with some relationship with money. If you grew up without money,

Nancy Perpall (31:14.73)
There are going to be major issues when you partner up with somebody. If you grew up with some money or middle class, then your attitude towards money is going to be completely different than somebody who maybe did not grow up and has always resented the fact that their family was not as well off as other people, that their clothing at school was not as good as the other kids.

Nancy Perpall (31:41.91)
And that's gonna play itself out in a marriage. I'm just telling you, I've seen it time and time and time again. So when I do premarital counseling, which I do, people ask me, well, you know, what do I ask? You ask about their marriage, their family of origin. You wanna see their family of origin. And if they don't want you to see their family of origin,

Nancy Perpall (32:09.47)
I'm telling you, that's the biggest red flag you could see.

Nancy Perpall (32:14.25)
I mean, that one's flying high above the couple. I mean, you need to understand how the person that you think you're gonna spend the rest of your life with or hope to, by the way, how they were raised and what was the method that they were taught to use to problem solve in an interpersonal relationship.

Nancy Perpall (32:38.846)
I mean, it's just so important.

Nancy Perpall (32:42.678)
But I believe in marriage, obviously. Eat, drink, and remarry. But I do, and I have seen so many marriages end prematurely because they just didn't have the patience, the persistence. Many times they wanted it to work out, but they just didn't know how to go about it. And that's why I'm writing this book, because it sort of shows people a field guide to how to go about it.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (32:45.205)
Yeah. You wrote books.

Nancy Perpall (33:12.27)
Though all the literature says that when you're in a situation where you're not getting anywhere with your communication, you have to change your language. And that's why I chose the food metaphor, because everybody connects with food. Everybody connects, you need water. Everybody connects, you need communication. So if you're not connecting, you say, we feel dehydrated. You know, it's like a safety zone. It's a new language that you can throw out there.

Nancy Perpall (33:42.154)
And it's not gonna be, you never talk to me. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, you know, all that whole, you know, this whole issue of, you know, blaming, screaming, demanding that we talk, it's not gonna get you anywhere. It is not going to get you anywhere, especially if it's the woman speaking to a man. As soon as a man hears that, he goes the other way. I'm just telling you.

Nancy Perpall (34:11.986)
I know from personal experience and professional experience. I know with male attorneys, male judges, you can't have that note of hysteria in your voice under any circumstances. You're not going to get anywhere with them.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (34:26.809)
Mm-hmm.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (34:31.553)
Well, I hate to cut our conversation short, but our time is starting to run out for this episode. I really want to thank you for joining us. And honestly, it's been a very enlightening, it's eye-opening experience. Is there anything that you would like our listeners to be able to follow you on, any social media platforms, any websites?

Nancy Perpall (34:38.871)
Okay.

Nancy Perpall (34:57.642)
Absolutely. I would be overjoyed if a few listeners would sign up for my newsletter. I think you'd find it extremely helpful. And I write a blog every month. Lately, I've been doing it consistent with different, you know, different holidays and things, you know, associated with a month. May is Mental Awareness Month. And I wrote an article about that, getting very good feedback.

Nancy Perpall (35:23.322)
My website is Nancy, N-A-N-C-Y, per Paul, P as in Peter, E-R, P as in Peter, A-L-L dot com. I do have an Instagram account. I am going to start doing videos and I haven't started yet. I'm doing reels, but I'm working myself up to it because I'm social media phobic, but I'm stepping out of my comfort zone. So if you would follow me on Instagram, it's Nancy.

Nancy Perpall (35:51.822)
PURPOL, again, it's P-E-R-P-A-L-L, author on Instagram. And on Facebook, it's Nancy PURPOL, author. So I would just so appreciate it. And of course, the book, Around Which All Things Bend, it's getting five star reviews on Amazon. So I would really appreciate that support as well. I wanna thank you. This has just been, you know, you're a great host.

Nancy Perpall (36:17.678)
and you asked the right questions. And I've been on like 60 podcasts and you're like right up there with my favorite. So thank you for inviting me.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (36:27.769)
Thank you so much. That's actually, I'm very honored to be able to get that kind of feedback. Thank you. And as for me, you'll be able to find us on our website, theroadscientistproductions.com, where you have our merchandise and links to my story on Kindle Velo, the world beyond. You also have all of our Road Scientist social media platforms. The best way to support us is to like our podcasts on your favorite podcast platform of choice. Let us know how much you've enjoyed the show.

The Rogue Scientist Productions (36:56.717)
We would like to thank you, Nancy, for being on our show as our guest and thank all of our listeners for joining us today. This has been our podcast to all of those out there looking to start a new career in the arts such as acting, writing, music, comedy and more. Always remember pursuing your passions as a bitch, but it's worth it.