Episode 20- Finding Your Hey with Deborah Fletcher

Today, we discuss the journey of Deborah Fletcher! Thank you for joining our journey through the arts. Like we always say "Pursuing your Passions is a Bitch... But it's worth it!"

Please Check out our friend, Deborah Fletcher-
Her Book- https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Your-HEY-Braving-Embracing-ebook/dp/B09TRX8WMF/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Finding+your+hey&qid=1686079850&s=digital-text&sr=1-3

Also Check us out and our future projects at The Rogue Scientist Productions
Website- https://theroguescientistproductions.com/
Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100087537946337
Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/roguescientistproductions/

Check out "The World Beyond" by Charles Dockham on Kindle Vella- https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/story/B0BMZPTP6G

Check out "The Beautiful Beast" by Carolyn Clark on Kindle Vella-https://www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/story/B0BVMNPBKZ

Check out Watsynthebox- Guest host William Thornhill- https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094728966282&mibextid=b06tZ0

Transcript

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (00:01.895)
Thank you and welcome to Pursuing Your Passions as a Bitch. I'm your host Charles Dockman, the owner of the Road Scientist Productions and the author of The World Beyond, an ongoing Kindle Vela story. With me I have my guest host Deborah Fletcher, the author of Finding Your Hay, a Crash Course in Braving Grief and Embracing Joy. Deborah?

Deb (00:22.19)
Thanks for having me.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (00:25.383)
Thank you for being on our show. And so today I just kind of wanted to start by asking you what was the inspiration behind this story?

Deb (00:35.586)
Well, the inspiration really is my daughter who lives with multiple disabilities. And it's a memoir kind of chronicling the journey that I took as her mother in terms of coming to terms with her disabilities and how that impacted her life and my life.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (00:59.935)
Oh, perfect. And so you said that it kind of starting with her disabilities and kind of how it impacted your life. So did you decide to kind of start by just accepting everything that was kind of happening at the time and just kind of going through the process of that?

Deb (01:19.57)
Yeah, so really, to be quite honest, it was a journey of grief. So it is, it's really bad news. You know, I'm not sounding ableist, I don't think, but it is, it is traumatic news to hear that your child is severely disabled. And I had given birth to identical twin girls.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (01:26.41)
Mm-hmm.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (01:42.362)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (01:47.998)
So it was all very joyful and exciting. And we learned very quickly that one of them had suffered some damage. They were born prematurely and she is severely disabled so she has no finer gross motor skills. She's non-verbal, she's incontinent, she only eats through a G-tube in her stomach. She has a slight visual impairment, she has a seizure disorder.

Deb (02:17.822)
Um, and, uh, yeah, so that's a lot, right? And so basically I have, uh, they are now 23 years old and basically she requires full and total care. So everything from feeding her, toileting her, dressing her, bathing her, everything. So it's a, it's a lot when you learn that that's going to be, uh, what

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (02:22.714)
Mm-hmm

Deb (02:45.198)
you're going to be doing for the rest of your life. So that's what I came to terms with, was really the grief that I felt. And it was more about that my expectations hadn't been met. You know, I mean, when you, when you think about it sort of big picture, right? And, and then of course I felt grief for her because I didn't know what her life was going to be like. So the grief really came from that kind of disappointment and a lot of fear.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (02:58.438)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (03:14.61)
So gradually, as I came through it and really learned how to live life with joy and not just acceptance, but really embracing who she is, she's an amazing person. And so I got to, I don't know, they were about maybe 18, 19 years old, and I started to think, you know, why am I so happy?

Deb (03:41.634)
how did I get through this? You know what I mean? It's just sort of this reflection that you do. So that's where I thought back on it and decided to chronicle it.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (03:44.775)
Mhm.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (03:54.959)
Wow. And I mean, getting to the point of 19 years old, I know it's kind of a struggle going from raising them from childhood and to raise them up and it's kind of the struggle from there. And then it's, it's, I commend you for being able to get through this time and being able to share your story with everybody else in the world. I mean, this gives them a chance to

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (04:24.887)
like you said, find their hay and try and find their happiness.

Deb (04:26.679)
Yeah.

Deb (04:29.49)
Exactly. So it's interesting and I'll explain what the title means. It's a little obscure, but when I was sort of reflecting on, you know, the past, however many years, I realized that I had looked to my dad as inspiration. So when he was 46 years old, I was 21, he had a heart attack.

Deb (04:58.11)
and then nine days later he had a stroke. And what that did to him, he survived, but what that meant was that the damage that was done to his brain with the stroke meant that he could never work again. And he recovered physically, but his mental processing never fully recovered. He actually lost his speech completely, but recovered that.

Deb (05:25.738)
with about two years of speech therapy. So he lost a lot. He lost the ability to continue on in the career that he loved and he lost that, just that going to work every day. And he missed out on enjoying his time with his colleagues and his friends and all of that. And he handled it with grace, acceptance.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (05:53.574)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (05:55.738)
joy, happiness. He lived to be 82 years old and he lived for the most part a really happy life. And so I really looked to him as my inspiration. Now when he had the heart attack and the stroke, as the story goes, the first time that I went to the hospital to visit him, and as you can imagine I was 21. This is my dad. He's my hero. So I was devastated.

Deb (06:23.478)
that he had suffered this, he was in the hospital. So, I don't know how he knew, I was walking down the hall toward his room and thinking this is just gonna be awful because I knew that his speech was gone and it was a very terrifying time. So I'm walking down the hall towards his room and all of a sudden he leaps out of his room, lands in the middle of the hall and just yells, hey, like that. And

Deb (06:54.226)
It was honestly, it was the only word that I understood our entire visit. But he did that intentionally. And I think, I mean, obviously it was, you know, he knew how I would be feeling. So he wanted to sort of reassure me. And it was kind of like he was saying, it's okay. You know, I'm gonna be okay. And, but for me, you know, when I look back on it, it really was sort of a symbol of his own.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (07:01.008)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (07:24.43)
courage and grace in terms of dealing with his own grief. And so that's where the title of the book, Finding Your Hay comes from. Because I remember when I was in the throes of really feeling that fear and that sadness around my daughter's diagnosis. And I thought, you know, I've got to find my hay. I've got to find my, really my attitude and my, you know.

Deb (07:54.298)
living life with this intentional positivity that he had. And so that's sort of been my journey because at first there was some dark days, you know? And she suffered some scary things. She's had a lot of surgeries and medical interventions and she's experienced a lot of pain and yet, you know, I can focus on those moments of joy and excitement and everything else as well.

Deb (08:24.326)
I really looked to my dad for that. And then I started thinking about it from a more global perspective in terms of just grief in general and what every human goes through when our expectations aren't met or when something sad happens or we experience loss. And so I interviewed four of my friends who each had completely different sort of grief stories. And...

Deb (08:51.41)
recorded those in the book and then looked at the different synergies and the similarities and the strategies that came through from all of us. And so I was really able to sort of synthesize that down into some usable...

Deb (09:14.354)
everyday strategies and so that's what comes out in the book. It's not just a really sad story, it's really about finding that inspiration and you know intentionally living a happy life.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (09:31.075)
Which is perfect for your title. I mean, it just really kind of goes along with your title, with everything, finding your hay through a very dark time. And that's really important. And so did you find when you were writing your story that things kind of flowed, like just kind of flowed through as you were trying to going through the process?

Deb (09:53.422)
Well, it's interesting, and I mean, I think you know this, that when you write, you just sort of try, the way I did it was I just tried to get everything out and then go back and edit. And I had, you know, I've read a lot in my life and I've certainly read other memoirs as well. And so I really tried to sort of bring that flavor.

Deb (10:22.31)
of a memoir, which is really storytelling to the book. So it's really a bunch of stories, and it's not sort of autobiographical in that it's not completely linear, starting at one point and ending at another point, but it was really a process where I thought about all the lessons that I'd learned and then what brought me here. So it was usually...

Deb (10:51.682)
story, a couple stories, things I learned from other people. And once I had it all down, then I could really sort of see what was, what, what I had learned and kind of translate that into what could a lesson be for other people to learn from my experiences, if you know what I mean. So...

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (11:20.646)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (11:21.318)
So it was kind of getting it all out first and then editing and organizing it. And it, you know, I call it a crash course. And, you know, so I sort of structured it as my dad was really my first teacher. And then my daughter was my second teacher. And then all the lessons learned and I call my friends sort of guest lecturers, you know? And then it...

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (11:49.735)
Hehehe

Deb (11:50.994)
it really ends up being almost like a self-help type of book.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (12:00.34)
Well, it kind of goes through just the when you're blindsided, you're getting hit with something that you're kind of not expecting. Just before COVID, my father passed away. So this would be one of those circumstances where your book would be perfect in terms of helping me through that process and helping others through processes where they're experiencing a lot of difficulties that...

Deb (12:15.406)
Oh, yeah.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (12:28.703)
would have happened to them depending on the circumstance. I know that you had pretty specific circumstances in terms of your father and then your daughter, but it's just finding those moments to be happy and making sure you are finding your hey and finding remembering that you come first and remembering that you are happy.

Deb (12:45.934)
Right.

Deb (12:50.41)
Right, yeah. And you know, it's funny because we don't learn these kinds of skills in school. We're not taught how to be grateful or how to look for those moments that wow us. You know, we're not, you know, it's sort of like a really learned attitude that anyone can acquire.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (13:10.523)
Hmm

Deb (13:19.486)
You know, because our natural tendency, I think just the way human beings are wired, is to look at worst case scenario, you know, and expect worst case scenario. And it really takes effort and takes a lot of intention to go through your day and notice the positive things that are happening, you know, and really celebrating. You know, if I get a good parking spot.

Deb (13:45.442)
then I really, I think about that and I celebrate it and I acknowledge that something positive just happened. And it's not that I'm trying to avoid negativity or thinking about anything negative. Those things do happen during the day, but it's what we take with us and what we focus on because it's really those thoughts that we think really do...

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (14:05.124)
Hmm.

Deb (14:16.27)
kind of control how we feel, you know? So we can talk ourselves into a good mood, we can also talk ourselves into a bad mood. So it's about making that choice, and I don't want to minimize, you know, pain and grief and all of those feelings that we have when we experience loss, because those are...

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (14:19.344)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (14:44.962)
those are real and it's part of being human, that we do experience pain and we experience all of these negative emotions like sadness and just understanding that that's normal, that's okay, that's the way it's supposed to be and you can learn to carry that grief through these strategies of bringing humor into your world and...

Deb (15:12.986)
and noticing when good things happen and feeling that gratitude and so on.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (15:20.788)
And I feel like it's also important to say that sometimes when overwhelmed by grief it just kind of you Feel it's more difficult to produce something or feel like it's more difficult to bring something to the table and yet There's been time and time again through extreme grief or anything like that where you've overcome it and then you've been able to in your case Write a book

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (15:48.387)
share your experiences with the world and help teach those going through the same processes or help teach those going through those experiences that it's okay. It's okay to feel those feelings. The weight of the the weight that you give those feelings is up to you and but at the end of the day it's processing grief, it's processing the emotions and you're doing the right thing but no there's going to be a time when you can sit down and

Deb (15:59.126)
Yeah.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (16:16.515)
word through those emotions or produce something beautiful. And I think that that's what you did at the end of the day is produced something very beautiful with your book.

Deb (16:24.694)
Thank you.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (16:26.503)
Yeah. So what type of publishing did you decide to go with through this when you produced your book? Did you do self-publishing or did you do traditional?

Deb (16:38.858)
I self-published and I actually used a company that they, they're called the Studio Press and they help authors publish. So they do that by offering services, a little bit of mentoring. My book was already written but they do help writers sort of go through that process as well. But.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (16:41.295)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (17:08.098)
For me, it was about bringing it all together, finding the, they find the, you know, the cover artist and the graphic designer. And they had an editor that went through and did sort of a once over, not deep dive editing, but a good like just sort of polished it off. And they helped to, they literally helped to load it onto Amazon and to...

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (17:16.528)
Mm-hmm.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (17:31.408)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (17:38.494)
do a lot of marketing, they help to launch it. So it was a really great service that they provide. I would recommend them highly. And so that's the route that I took. It was simple and it was pretty quick.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (17:45.002)
Mm-hmm.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (17:57.955)
Which is the best feeling of it all, is to find your product on Amazon, to find your work of art on Amazon.

Deb (18:06.334)
Yes, it was pretty amazing when they ship that first copy and there's nothing like opening up that first copy You know the first book that arrives and yeah, it was amazing and and then to see The books that have been purchased and i'm in canada So there are have been books purchased here in canada in the united states and um in the uk so it's You know, it's It's amazing that that um

Deb (18:35.926)
that that's what happens.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (18:38.967)
Yeah, to see your voice has reached individuals internationally is...

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (18:45.207)
a great thing to see. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so how long has it been on the market?

Deb (18:45.83)
Yeah, yeah, it's very exciting.

Deb (18:51.69)
It's been on the market a year. I have sort of just promoted it slowly but surely. My purpose in writing it was to mainly have it for my family, but it is something that I'm passionate about in terms of spreading that word. So I do public speaking. I can do...

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (19:09.083)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (19:21.942)
coaching around the skills and the tactics that I talk about in the book as well. So it's sort of a full package in that way.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (19:28.879)
Mm-hmm.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (19:35.307)
Yeah, which is, I mean, because you're kind of touching on therapy in a sense when it comes to kind of these instances, when it comes to being blindsided by something that might cause you depression or being blindsided by something that might cause you to not fully kind of handle this in a certain way. And so it's huge to just kind of have that being able to relate

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (20:05.019)
to somebody who's going through something similar. I know that we always kind of feel in our feelings that it's only me, it's only happening to me, everything's happening to me, but to be able to express that with someone else is huge.

Deb (20:17.11)
Yeah, and that was one of the goals that I had, was really to create community in that sense that you're not alone and there are, we all go through varying types of grief. That's just part of being human, right? So the fact that, like you say, you're not alone and that there are others who have gone through what you're going through and have come out the other side and here are some things that you can try and.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (20:23.035)
Mm-hmm.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (20:31.065)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (20:44.994)
It's sort of a life coaching type of process.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (20:50.431)
Exactly. Yeah. And so what have you kind of seen as the outside of that? Are you planning on writing another book?

Deb (21:01.674)
I just might. It is a process that once you finish it, you kind of miss it. You know? So I do write blog posts, but you miss that process of writing. So I think that, you know, there's, I think most people probably write with the intention of maybe just writing one book and then you just keep writing.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (21:10.879)
Mm-hmm.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (21:28.011)
Exactly. And I think that's a huge piece for me when it comes to writing is you just kind of want to finish your one finish the story but then you kind of once you finished it you feel that there's so many other stories you have yet to tell and there's so much other stuff that you have yet to kind of Spread to everybody else and you've kind of already seen the platform and you've already seen kind of what you've been able to accomplish with Everything before so it just kind of invigorates you to see what you can do with your next book

Deb (21:55.898)
It does, it does, and you get hooked on that feeling of accomplishment. You know? I mean, it's a forever thing. You wrote a book. It's there in physical form. So yeah, that's a really great feeling, and you kind of want to have that feeling again.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (22:02.144)
Mm-hmm.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (22:15.191)
Exactly. Well, how's your family or how's your family kind of been receptive to the book? I know that you've kind of said that you originally wrote it for them. Did they love seeing the first

Deb (22:16.899)
Yeah.

Deb (22:32.454)
Yes, I had showed the unpublished version to my children and their dad, but I didn't show anybody else until it was published. So that was, yeah, that was kind of exciting. And yeah, and then, and my friends as well, the friends whose story I took and put in the book, which, you know, that's...

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (22:47.663)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (23:02.717)
It was something to hand that over to them as well. Yeah.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (23:06.499)
Mm-hmm. And one thing I always like to ask anybody that I have on the podcast, when it comes to kind of taking steps into writing or taking steps into getting into these types of projects, is there anything that you might suggest to anybody? Is there anything that you might suggest for anybody looking to get started or for anybody who's taking a look into this realm of being an author?

Deb (23:34.798)
I would say that you just need to write, that's the obvious, and just keep on writing and you'll see your writing get better, which is an interesting thing to see as well. When I look back on how I wrote prior to writing the book, it's quite different. The other thing that I would recommend is read a lot. And read...

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (23:57.307)
Mm-hmm.

Deb (24:04.226)
books that are similar to one that you wish to write. So I did read a lot of memoirs, and I really liked Stephen King's book on writing because it is basically his life story. And then he also talks about writing as a craft. And that was a real inspiration. It was, well, it was interesting just to hear his sort of life story and how he, you know.

Deb (24:32.494)
how he came to be a writer, and then he had some really great tips to pass along as well.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (24:39.939)
which I find huge as well. I have a pile of just different writing books, different story structure books, different books to try and learn through the process of everything, just to make sure that if I'm forgetting anything, if there's anything that I can do to make things better, if I'm losing inspiration, I have the means to be able to keep myself on track. But we are coming to the...

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (25:04.915)
end of the episode. I want to thank you so much for being able to join us on our program today. Are there any projects? Are there any future books? Are there any signings? Anything that you would like any of our listeners to be able to find you at?

Deb (25:15.63)
I'm sorry.

Deb (25:18.466)
Yeah, come on up to Canada. You know, my website, it does get updated with blogs and with events and that kind of thing. So my website is is deborcovell.com and the book is on there as well in terms of linking to Amazon.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (25:22.949)
Yeah.

Deb (25:48.671)
Um, and I'm also on Instagram. So.

Deb (25:54.498)
Yeah.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (25:56.327)
Thank you. As for me, you'll be able to find us on our website, theroadscientistproductions.com, where we have our merchandise and links to my story on Kindle Vella, The World Beyond. You also have all of our Rhodes Scientist social media platforms, Facebook, Tumblr, Twitter. And the best way to support us is to like our podcasts on your favorite podcast platform of choice, and let us know how much you've enjoyed our show. We want to thank you, Debra, for being on our.

the_rogue_scientist_productions-abcz (26:23.439)
being a guest on our show today and thank all of our listeners for joining us as well. This has been our podcast to all those out there looking to start a new career in the arts such as acting, writing, music, comedy and more. Always remember, pursuing your passions is a bitch, but it's worth it.

Deb (26:41.532)
It is.